Sarajevo, 22nd of August 2010
Why should I claim the assertion from the title? Because of many reasons!
The first reason is that 70% of Americans are against building a mosque at the place where the WTC used to be. What does this say? That Muslims are responsible collectively for the terrorist act on 11th of September? Or that Americans simply don’t make a difference between terrorists and Muslims? I’d say this is the reason.
The second reason is the war in Iraq. It has been claimed by the American politicians that Saddam Hussein has nuclear weapons, which turned out to be a complete lie, mainly set up by George W. Bush. That liar killed more than million people in Iraq, which is more than 200 times more than in 9/11 attacks. Why are Iraqi lives less valuable than American ones?
The third reason is the war in Afghanistan. The new, “left oriented” president, Barack Obama, increased the number of soldiers in this country. Even it is probably impossible to win the war in Afghanistan, at least in my opinion, Obama doesn’t give up. In one of his speeches, he talked about justification of war. It’s too sad to be true. Also, American authorities pushed to death more than 1.000 American soldiers (info from NY Times, could be more than that) in the name of war against terrorism. Probably there are more American victims, at least few thousands, which is close to the 9/11 number of victims.
Fourth reason is their “democratic” system. While they are trying to “democratize” Cuba, Syria, North Korea and, in the 80’s, Yugoslavia (the best country in the world), they have two same political parties. I would like that somebody could explain the real difference between American two party system and other one party system, which probably functions even better than this one. At least, in these countries all people have health insurance. It’s true that they cannot say what ever they want, but in the USA, if you do something against the system, you go to Guantanamo, which is much worse than any other prison in the world.
It’s probably only a matter of time when the Americans will begin a new war, somewhere where the oil is not theirs. Also, it could be some other rich country, which tries to function without American democracy and other double standard policies. When we add the IMF to this story, as the organization that controls the world, we can be sure that the USA will be the worlds´ policeman a long, long time. People will be dying of hunger in Cuba, or driving 50 years old cars, as this one on the picture, only because they don’t want the American system. You can see the everyday Cuban life, thanks to American sanctions, here.
Except these four very serious reasons, there are many of them which cannot be put in the same article, as they would be confusing. But I promise to spend one article on this subject, proving American role in the balkanization[1] of my neighborhood.
[1] Balkanization is a geopolitical term used to describe the process of fragmentation or division of a region into many smaller regions that are often hostile or non-cooperative with each other. The term has begun to be used in other contexts when describing a disintegration process, such as the of Internet being divided into separate enclaves.
Dear Mirza, you generalize the same as the Americans that think that all Muslims are terrorists (in your opinion).
And I don’t think the wars on terror work like: you killed 1000 Americans, I will kill 2000 Iraqis or Afghanis. Of course anybody can draw conclusions like that, but I think this is very superficial.
You think the war in Afghanistan can’t be won. That is your opinion. It seems that Obama doesn’t agree with you. Can we accept plurality of opinions?
Regarding the 2 party system: there are many more democratic societies out there with only 2 parties and the system is working good. USA is not the only one. Does this mean that all those countries are fake democratic societies?
“If you do something against the system, you go to Guantanamo, which is much worse than any other prison in the world”. If by “something against the system” you mean trying to blow-up an airplane or other buildings, then you are right. If by that you also mean driving drunk or lighting up fireworks in a state where that is not allowed, I can tell you for sure that you don’t go to Guantanamo.
Mirza,
Although I’m anti-war, and I’m anti-Bush administration - I feel that, much like Carmen said, your post isn’t about the lack of Democracy in the USA, but more about how you don’t like Americans. It’s always easy to point out the bad - but perhaps it would be a good idea to try to look at what has changed for the better in the past few years?
For one, only 176 detainees (according to Wikipedia) are still at Guantanamo - I have heard many horror stories of GTMO and I can only hope that none are true, but at least Obama is *trying* to implement the democratic values of his nation by transferring prisoners out of there..
Nothing personal - I just think that perhaps you’re doing the same thing you feel Americans are doing to Muslism…
In addition to the other comments, which I would have to agree with even though I feel equally outraged as you do about parts of our foreign policy, I would have to add that the inaccuracies in your first paragraph only continue to contribute to the problem. Park51 is a planned Islamic cultural center two blocks away and around the corner from the site of the former WTC. It will have a prayer space, but it is not a mosque in the sense that it has lots of other purposes, including a 9/11 memorial, nor will it be designed like a mosque or broadcast announcements for prayer five times a day.
Dear people, thank you for the comments.
Carmen, it’s not true that I don’t like Americans or any other nation in the world. In every case, I like all the people, but the systems - not at all. You said that you go to Guantanamo if you blow up the plane or do the similar things. I will tell you, in just one example, that is completely flat claim. Seven people from Algeria, who were the legal citizens of Bosnia (they married Bosnian women and lived over 5 yrs here), were sent to Guantanamo, without any judging and with no any reason. Even, nobody proved any of theirs guilty after 7-8 years. Now, they are back, they don’t have any rights and they cannot go to the court to sue USA or Bosnia, even nobody proved their guilty. They were sent to Guantanamo only because they looked as suspects, with long beard and veiled wives.
About two party system… I agree, there are some countries which function, but there are also one party system countries which function very well, but Americans are always against them, even if they shouldn’t care about it. One of them is Syria. Unfortunately, Cuba cannot function well because of American sanctions (you can read my article about Cuba here http://development.thinkaboutit.eu/think3/post/cuban_mixture_made_of_socialism_and_religion/ ), but I am sure it would look totally different without them.
About war in Afghanistan… Some of American presidents thought also they can win the war in Vietnam, but you should remind that nobody won against Afghanistan. Maybe I am wrong, but it would be for the first time that somebody wins vs. Afghanistan.
Anyway, I don’t have much time to pay attention to other comments right now, but I’ll be back tomorrow and answer to your observations.
And yes… Carmen, do you think that justification of the war is OK, in your opinion, like Obama said?
USA is also right in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and all other countries, don’t you think? Can you explain us why these Algerians are not in Bosnian prisons now, if they are so guilty, as you said? I agree that we should be careful with this kind of people, but Guantanamo is for sure not an option.
Dear Mirza, the problems at Guantanamo and people being detained there without any trial are already recognized by the USA. I never said Guantanamo is right and that everybody in there deserves to be there. I was making a comment at your sentence saying that anybody trying to do something against the system goes to Guantanamo. You can’t just say general stuff like that, you need to be precise when it comes to this kind of issues. That sentence of yours is easily attackable.
I don’t know if Americans are always against countries that have one party system. I know they do have commercial exchanges with China for one.
“Nobody won the war in Afghanistan”. So that means Americans shouldn’t have even started it just because nobody won it? What would you have wanted the United States to do after 9/11? Apologize that they are a imperialist superpower and promise never to do it again? As I see it 9/11 was a war declaration and this is how I see it. I know each party have their reasons, but you can’t condemn just one of them for what is going on right now.
To reply to your question: I don’t think any war in this world is perfectly justifiable, but unfortunately the humankind hasn’t reached the level of development and intelligence required to solve any conflicts arising through diplomatic channels. And people keep doing with thousands because of that.
@ all - agree with Carmen, it’s a little bit more complex than the article has pictured it and yes, it just adds to the problems mentioned in the article.
@ Perry - would it be a problem if it was ‘designed like a mosque or broadcast announcements for prayer five times a day’?
I mean, guys, establishing a mosque or any other religious centre or church in Ground Zero should be as natural as brushing one’s teeth in the morning! I mean, why should we put extremists to the same pot as believers, how sick is that? I have no problem with any church on the ground.
Dalai Lama on Facebook yesterday: “We can’t say that all religions are the same, different religions have different views and fundamental differences. But it does not matter, as all religions are meant to help in bringing about a better world with better and happier human beings. On this level, I think that through different philosophical explanations and approaches, all religions have the same goal and the same potential.”
The details do not matter, because ultimately the people do have the right to establish Park51 as they see fit and it complies with local building regulations. The problem is that inaccuracies are a major component of the hatred that has been stirred up, and continuing to call it the “ground zero mosque” when it is neither of those things does not help in reaching a peaceable solution to the conflict. In another post, I actually advocated for establishing religious institutions of all kind, including a mosque, at the actual ground zero site as a show of unity and tolerance. Finally, one of my main objections was the violence that the original post was seeped in - if you hate a bigot, are you not yourself giving in to bigotry?
Helena, thank you for your last comment, I totally agree with you, but we’ll see what will really happen. Of course, this article is quite simple, but I wanted to make a dialogue about American point of the view, because I really sometimes feel as an idiot, especially cause they are governing in my country completely legal. From my point of view, they have very nice policy in Bosnia, but in whole world it’s totally different. Of course, I don’t count their role in the fall of Yugoslavia, but it’s complicated to import it to this story without much research.
Yugoslavia best country in the world…? By which criteria?
It’s my opinion, but I also have arguments for that. Of course, I know that Australia or Canada are probably better for life, but when you count all of the factors, such as geographical position, foreign influence, diversity of nations, etc., it was probably the best country for the ordinary people, who had social security, job, freedom, etc.
Dear all,
As I read the article, and all the following comments, I found it a very interesting discussion, but also a difficult one. Although I agree with some comments about the generalizations that this article states, I don’t think that was the core subject the author wanted to address. As I see it, I think the author tried to address that, although an imperialist and worlds superpower, what the USA does (regarding foreign policy for example) does not by default, or automatically mean that that is the right or best way or option. If the Americans (even maybe Western Europeans) are used solving problems or functioning in a certain way, this is simply not the most common or natural way for other nations. I think this is also in close connection to one’s culture. I worked with international students, and our University organized workshops about intercultural communication, so we would better understand our students and vice versa. The first thing you learn when speaking about cultures is that you can’t put one culture above another. They are simply different, or even opposite, but none is better than the other. If you can’t understand this, you should at least respect it. This has maybe some relation to having different political systems. What is good for one nation, can maybe have averse effect when implemented into another country that does not have the same political tradition for example, or that has different norms and values. For example, when grown up in an individualistic system as the USA and most European countries are, it is unbelievable how an individual can put private needs aside, and agree with collectivistic ones, or put collectivistic ones above their own. Anyhow, I think that no war should be justifiable, or let me put it this way, it must not be justifiable. So Obama or not, I think it is shameful, also in the name of democracy (as a relatively peaceful system), to justify a war. Every war means, on purpose or not, killing other human beings, and in my opinion, that should never be the case, should not, is not ever ok. War = blood, and war is hell, and everyone who experienced it from close, or almost close knows this.
And for the end, I don’t agree we can name one country the best in the world, and we shouldn’t be doing that as it is not a competition. The earth is our planet, and we should strive for many stable, in the end all, peaceful countries.
Ivaylo, what Mirza meant by naming Yugoslavia the best, in my opinion, is the following. Communism has a quite negative connotation, and therefore it is for many or even most people unthinkable that this system, as known in our ex country, can bring, achieve something good, as communism is closely related to its form as it had in SSSR, the East European bloc, North Korea, China etc. However, expect of the one party system which is not democratic, in other aspects of daily life there were plenty democratic characteristics - we were able to move freely across the whole world with our passport, the social system was very well developed, so everybody had good health insurance, and was foreseen of a job. Our living standard was much higher than it is in today Bosnia and Herzegovina, for example. Our parents went on many weekend trips to Italy just to shop, or sight see, many of middle class families had vacation houses, and the retired ones could live with no worries how to survive till the next pension, the general poverty was much less. Maybe for the outside perspective it was a bad system, as it wasn’t a democratic one theoretically, but that state insured us a better life than our democratic one provides us today. When it comes to everyday life, the bare things count - roof above your head, food, health (insurance), and a job. All of us had all this, and often some extra’s, while today almost 50% of the people are unemployed in Bosnia and Herzegovina. We lived better, carefree, and on a higher living standard while in a ‘undemocratic’ system.
@all - May I humbly remind you what THINK3 is all about. From the ‘about’ page of this site, I copied: ‘Their [our] objective in TH!NK3 is to write and report about global cooperation and sustainable development in the lead up to the United Nations’ Millennium Development Goals Review Summit in September 2010.’
So can you please stick to this and refrain from issues (important as they may be) that are completely irrelevant to this platform?
I would really appreciate that. Thank you.
@Bart… I think we have also “politics” section here in the categories. World is in eternal development, probably because of policies, such as American policy in Iraq, Afghanistan or Cuba. I wouldn’t say that we shouldn’t write about floods, hunger, etc., but probably some of us don’t have knowledge and sources for these serious issues and I really cannot always write about happenings with so many victims or refugees. I really enjoy your articles, and I hope we’ll continue reading them even after the competition.